Clare Gallagher: How Runners Can Be Environmentally Conscious

About this episode:

In this week’s episode, Hillary Allen interviews Clare Gallagher, an ultrarunner and environmental advocate. They discuss the role athletes can play in environmental policies, how runners can find their niche in advocating for our environment, and why even small changes make a big difference.

Episode Highlights:

• The environmental issues that are too big to ignore
• You don’t have to get politically involved to make a difference
• Where and how you can get involved 

Guest Bio – Clare Gallagher:

Clare Gallagher is a Colorado native, Princeton University graduate, environmental advocate, and ultrarunner. Clare has made strides as an environmental advocate and as an ultrarunner winning Leadville 100, the Western States 100, 101K in the UTMB series, and a few FKT’s. 

Read More About Clare Gallagher:

Website: https://clare.run/

Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/clare_gallagher_runs/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/clare.gallagher.runs

Twitter: https://twitter.com/puppiesonmtsyay

Other Resources:

Protect Our Winters: https://protectourwinters.org/

 

Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, Google Podcasts, or on your favorite podcast platform

This Week’s Sponsor:

CTS TrainRight Membership

Hillary Allen (00:00):

Hello, and welcome to the train right podcast. Today’s guest. We have Claire Gallagher. Claire is an ultra runner and environmental advocate living in Boulder, Colorado. After studying the impacts of climate change on coral reefs, she transitioned to running and mountain regions. She won the Leadville 100 and Western States 100 mile runs, but more importantly, Claire advocates for air quality, renewable energy and public lands policies. She’s a Patagonia global sports activist and works with the climate advocate organization. Protect our winters. Hey Claire. Welcome to the podcast. Thanks for coming.

Clare Gallagher (00:35):

Hi Hilllary. Thank you for having me. Are you doing today? Good. Yeah, we’re we’re not far, which is nice. It’s uh, well, yeah, welcome back to you. I know I’m so happy to be back in Colorado. Um, but yeah,

Hillary Allen (00:35):

New Speaker (00:52):

Super pumped to talk to you today because I feel like, um, I mean, especially, especially this year with everything that’s been going on and for years to come, I feel like we’re at kind of a pivotal moment, um, for, you know, policy change in what it means to be an outdoor, um, athlete and kind of an advocate for the environment or an activist for the environment. Um, so I guess we’re just gonna kick it off. Um, what does it mean to be an environmental activist to you? And am I using that right advocate act activist? What do you think?

Clare Gallagher (01:25):

Yeah, well, I, it kind of depends on the context, but, um, yeah, we can, we can go from there. Um, it’s funny, cause I think this, those two words, advocate and activists they’ve, uh, some people have a lot of opinions about them. I, I see advocate as, um, a bit more of a formal role. Like an environmental advocate might be someone who lobbies at the federal level. So in DC for like climate organizations or, uh, conversely for oil companies, um, that wouldn’t be an environmental advocate, but, uh, an activist might be seen more as a grassroots level. So someone like an organizer who is contacting, uh, community members, like in a small town or in a smaller area and, um, doing maybe more one-on-one type work or you could see an activist as someone like doing direct actions. So say doing sit-ins at a senator’s office who isn’t supporting climate organizations or, um, you know, hanging big signs over a highway that says, you know, like vote for earth, vote for Biden, um, things like that.

Clare Gallagher (02:50):

And, um, I see myself as both an advocate and activist. Um, yeah, so I, I don’t S you know, uh, think for the context of this conversation, it’s, it’s matters too much, but it’s kinda interesting when you get into the weeds, because someone, maybe if those phrases are new to them, um, it’s cool to see the big span of ways you can get involved with environmental advocacy and activism. You know, it could be in a really, uh, formal or like less, um, one-on-one setting, like even just signing on to online petitions or sending emails to your senators or representatives or calling them, um, like that, that fits in with it. Uh, but so does like running up for clean air, you know, and going to events and talking to people about climate advocacy and, and climate change. And, um, yeah, it’s, it could mean a million things, which I think is so cool. I hope, I hope that people feel invited, you know, that every human on this planet can see themselves as an environmentalist just by virtue of living on this planet and breathing air, um, clean. And sometimes it’s not clean, you know, that makes, makes air political like intrinsically.

Hillary Allen (04:18):

Um, yeah, I mean, that’s actually, I mean, so I just got back from, you know, a year living in France and, um, I mean their environmental policies are a bit different, but still, um, like even here, I mean, I did the running up for air, uh, the RUFA events in, it was in salt Lake city, outside of salt Lake city. And that kind of the Colorado equivalent here, I did, uh, two summers ago. Um, but I mean, even.

New Speaker (04:42):

this, this summer, like with the air quality, the poor air quality of the fires occurred in Colorado. Like, it can just start as simple as that, like where people get, you know, to kind of experience, you know, what’s it like, um, to not be able to kind of go outside and have your kind of your health at risk. Um, and I think it’s crazy that people see that, um, maybe take it for granted unless it’s kind of in their immediate, um, I don’t know, in their immediate kind of presence. Um, but I guess, I mean, that kind of leads me to my, to my other question is how do you see the role of athletes in, you know, professional or non-professional athletes, um, you know, shaping the future of outdoor sport recreation education and like influencing almost policy.

Clare Gallagher (05:26):

Yeah. I, I see it as a responsibility or any, uh, let’s, let’s stick with any ultra runner or trail runner, you know, for our community. Um, any professional who is, who is seen and has a platform in this community to be talking about, um, clean air and how I believe clean air is a human, right. And it’s, it’s cool when, you know, most of us have clean air to breathe, but just because say you go through a year where your AQI or air quality index isn’t bad. And it doesn’t mean we should turn a blind eye to the communities that are breathing really polluted air. And those are more urban areas. You know, it’s, it’s predominantly areas that have like oil refineries or toxic chemical plants near them. And, you know, you look at the stats of that. It’s predominantly black and Brown communities and, and, you know, no one’s immune to it.

Clare Gallagher (06:33):

I live in Boulder, Colorado, which doesn’t have oil refineries by it, but we experienced the horrific smoke from wildfires this year. It’s the worst I’ve ever experienced in breathing my entire life. And I’ve lived in Colorado. I grew up here almost three decades, right? Yeah. You were in Collins and I was South of Denver and I just, it’s, it’s becoming too big to ignore. And so how that looks, I guess, for every say like professional runner is obviously different, you know, not everyone feels empowered to educate their followers or whatnot, but I think whatever feels right to you is worth it. You know, even just walking about it, like, what does it feel like to breathe bad air and why it matters that our leaders should, should also regulate pollutants because there is a human right. And we have the clean air act, um, in the U S and a lot of other countries have similar, you know, it was like Seminole, environmental policies and laws. And right now our government is failing us. Like our government is not using the clean air act to regulate, uh, emissions of CO2, which is causing a worst global climate change. And, and that’s a problem. So it’s like, how much do we want to talk about this in the running world? You know, it’s different for everyone, but every little mentioned matters every little educational piece. We find batters, especially as our, as our scene becomes. So digital, you know, it’s so sad we have to do so much online, but it matters. Yeah,

Hillary Allen (08:19):

Absolutely. And I mean, this is maybe a little bit of a tangent, but I feel like in the ultra running world and trail running world, there’s a lot of crossover between like winter sports, especially in Colorado or in mountainous places and you know, the off season and your, um, what’s your role at, um, protect our winters.

Clare Gallagher (08:37):

Yeah. So protect your winners has kind of expanded to anyone who doesn’t know what it is. It was started by a snowboarder Jeremy Jones who saw increasingly melting glaciers around the world as he was snowboarding crazy lines. And, uh, and so he was like, aren’t snowboarders and skiers and, and other outdoor athletes doing anything about this. And it’s really blossomed into this huge, I think like it’s a light at the end of this very dark, unknown tunnel of a way we can all come together and agree that, you know, if you like to be outside, then we should care about climate change. And the what, what, how does specifically compared to other organizations is it works on political advocacy. So it’s going to the local state and federal level and the work in particular States that are like more strategic, um, you know, that have a chance of passing good climate laws like in Colorado, for example, in the last few years.

Clare Gallagher (09:44):

And they bring pro athletes to, um, testify on bills. So Tommy Caldwell, the rock climber or Caroline Gleich, the ski Mountaineer have, have been in DC testifying, um, of why, like why Caroline needs winter literally to do her job, which is skiing and not, not to mention the hundreds of thousands of other people who make their livings off, um, the ski industry and, uh, you know, so it makes it, it how connects like the economics of climate change with the outdoor industry. And there’s a huge contingent, I mean, I know you’ve seen, or you’ve posted a bunch about Powell Hillary. Um, yeah. And you know, so there’s runners getting involved and anyone who runs outside who wants to get involved with more of this political side of climate advocacy, I highly recommend going to protect our winters.org. Um, and seeing if there’s any like state bills, um, near you, uh, obviously the big push of the last year was the elections that just happened. And, you know, so next it’ll be, you know, how does the Biden administration push climate climate work? And can we get some state level bills passed? And yeah, it’s, it’s a good org.

Hillary Allen (11:08):

Yeah. And I mean, even with stuff like that, it’s, it’s been interesting. Um, being able to kind of be involved virtually, like you said, I mean, it’s kind of crazy and, uh, how much, uh, you know, virtually we can make a difference, even if we’re not kind of in the same area, but I mean, me coming from, you know, kind of looking on from afar in France, it’s like these policies, it’s not, you know, it’s not just me, it starts local for sure, but they have these huge other implications. I mean, in the United States, SIG, I mean, we don’t really have glaciers aside from, in like the Pacific Northwest and maybe some old glaciers in Montana and Wyoming, but ours have kind of disappeared. And so it’s like, I know pretty much, most every trail runner has either to Chamonix or like has fantasized about running in the Alps where there are glaciers and you can see them in real time kind of receding, you know, from my five years of going back and forth to Europe, you know, I’ve, I’ve seen it in my lifetime in a short amount of time.

Hillary Allen (12:07):

And so it makes it that much more tangible and, um, just more kind of the urgency, I think. Um, and yeah, it’s, I think it’s, it’s, it’s not just something that like, it is in your backyard, but it also just, we’re all connected in some way. And it’s like, if you, you know, if you think it’s like, if your pollution or whatever, you’re trying to protect your CO2 emissions, uh, in Colorado, you know, we all live in the same world that cannot travel. It’s all, it’s affecting climates that are, you know, across the ocean too. So right. This connectedness

Clare Gallagher (12:43):

100% and it’s wild because so many runners are, uh, are really smart. And for example, I was testifying. And I guess what I meant to say is, is so many runners are actually a lot more versed in the everyday impacts of climate change than some of our elected officials. And I, and I say this to really empower our community. I was testifying on a bill at the Colorado state level. Um, in 2019, it was like, it was HB 1261, which was basically, um, to get Colorado’s emissions to, um, neutral by 2050. You know, it was one of those like stepwise bills and a state representative from Colorado Springs, uh, said, you know, Hey, I know you, uh, you run in Boulder, but you could come down to Colorado Springs where we have lots of athletes, the Olympic training center, um, Pikes peak marathon. And, and they don’t seem to be bothered by, um, air pollution in Colorado Springs.

Clare Gallagher (13:55):

And I was like, you know, this is like in a it’s in the state Capitol, it’s like a very official setting. And you’re as an elected official, who is failing to acknowledge very basic facts of science, that one Colorado Springs does experience pretty bad air pollution, just like the front range of, of Denver. Um, and, and it’s just, you know, what he said was false. Like, just because you have athletes living there, it doesn’t mean they are living there. Cause your air is clean. It’s actually not clean and you should check your own air quality, um, like on a more regular basis. And, and so it put me in a really uncomfortable position, you know, here I am trying to testify on air quality when an elected official is, is just saying something that’s blatantly false. Um, and so that’s where I want to empower more runners to be like, Hey, I know what I’m breathing. You know, I know what I see. I might not be a PhD climate scientist, but I know that these forest fire smoke that I’m feeling in the Bay area or Colorado or wherever, you know, Bozeman, Oregon this year, it was all over this isn’t normal. And like, I’m going to get involved with a local organization. I’m gonna talk to my trail running group, I’m going to do something, you know, and it trickles up cause that’s eventually we need to get people like him out of office.

Hillary Allen (15:21):

Yeah. And it’s like, and I know it’s exactly, it’s like, we’re all part of this bigger community. So I feel it’s like empowering. That’s the coolest part about the tour? Any community I feel is that it is a community and everyone like brings each other up. So it’s really cool to see, um, you know, all of the, like, you know, trail runners kind of doing their part to impact things on a bigger, broader level. Yeah,

Clare Gallagher (15:41):

Yeah. Yeah. And it’s like, you know, it sounds kind of vague what we’re talking about, but to get specific, it’s like, yeah. Then Google organizations like three fifty.org and see what the local chapter is or sunrise movement.org, which that’s like, they definitely, uh, identify as activists. I L I love sunrise movement. They do a lot of direct action and climate justice. Um, but even like, say trail work is your thing, you know, like doing trail maintenance, you know, that it all, it all adds up. Cause, cause say you, aren’t trying to get too political for whatever reason. Like I respect you. Um, but there’s always ways we can get more connected and give back, you know?

Hillary Allen (16:26):

Yeah. And so this is also, this is kind of a good little segue. Um, so when, how do you balance being a trail runner, like a professional athlete and your carbon footprint?

Clare Gallagher (16:39):

Um, great question. Yeah. Which I’m sure like you’ve thought about this advisor. I feel like we’ve talked about this on runs before. Uh, and I, my answer to that is I’ll give you the shorter version is everyone is imperfect in some way. At least I know I will always be in perfect. And I really don’t want to get my imperfections in the way of any type of progress. You know, I could refuse to travel and move, you know, off grid and not use a cell phone and, and do all the things to have a very low impact lifestyle. And, and I’m choosing not to do that. I’m choosing to find a medium, you know, and I think professional athletes get a lot of unwarranted flack for flying to races because frankly it’s our job. Uh, I, I chose to travel fewer times to Europe in the last few years.

Clare Gallagher (17:39):

Obviously I haven’t been this year, um, because I started to add up my, my emissions every year and I’m like, okay, you know what? I, I can’t justify like that many flights across the ocean. So I’m going to limit it to only one, like at the very most, you know, so I’m doing little things here and there and I trust that other people are making those decisions for themselves. And I’ve been told like completely lambasted on social media for being a hypocrite and blah, blah, blah. This was a couple of years ago. And I think people have started to, to look a little bit bigger picture because when you look at a lot of, or I think it’s like air travel emissions in the us, um, a large percentage of that, I’m not sure what percent, but it’s more than 50 is corporate travel. And so to criticize a professional athlete who has a platform for doing their job, but to not look at the corporate world of travel of, of people who are, you know, flying from New York to LA every week, um, I think is really unfair and unwarranted because I don’t think, you know, people who’ve have to fly to do their job.

Clare Gallagher (18:52):

Um, can’t be climate advocates. You still can, you know, everyone’s in their own is in their own scope. Um, so I would encourage people to like go easy on themselves, you know, say you drive like a gas guzzling truck. Like that doesn’t mean you can’t be a climate advocate. You can be, you could be maybe the best climate advocate in the world, but consider buying an electric car. Once your truck dies, you afford it. You know, like we can do things here and there, which is what I’ve, I’ve done in my personal life. But, um, I think, yeah, we have to really go easy on ourselves and know that we’re all connected and no one is perfect.

Hillary Allen (19:37):

I know, I love that. And we have, we’ve had, I feel like with some of these conversations we’ve had on runs, I feel like it’s like, you can, we can like save the world.

Clare Gallagher (19:46):

Yeah.

Hillary Allen (19:48):

It starts small. I mean, at least, at least for, um, like we’ve talked about this as far as like traveling to races. I mean, one way that I would combat it is because I primarily race in Europe.

Clare Gallagher (19:58):

Yeah. That’s your, that’s like what you do. You’re a sky runner, you know, it’s like, you can’t get criticized for that. So anyways, sorry.

Hillary Allen (20:07):

I mean, I’d have to go there. So basically what I would do is instead of flying back and forth for each race, I would literally fly once and then I would stay in Europe for the summer and then fly back. Um, so I would only be taking two flights, but of course, you know, that requires some, some, some, some different things. But I saw that kind of as an opportunity. And I mean, this past year when I was in, when I was in France and I got stuck there, but, um, but I know I actually had like a whole year without a car. And like, you know, even though I have a car here in United States, I, um, I still, I have my bike. And so I use my bike any chance I can get, and it, you know, it starts small, but you’re right.

Hillary Allen (20:46):

It’s like everyone isn’t, isn’t perfect. And, um, we’ve talked about this too, as far as like, you know, eating less, less meat or things like this. Like, I haven’t been able to do that perfectly. I mean, like, you know, as a woman who, you know, iron content is super important, you know, I can’t, I can’t do that a hundred percent of the time, but there’s also, you know, there’s ways that you can, you can, it’s not an all or nothing situation. I mean, there’s ways that, you know, if you keep it, have it once a week, that’s better than, you know, every

Clare Gallagher (21:17):

No, or that. Yeah. But, and so this is, this is awesome.

Hillary Allen (21:25):

Kind of like, um, a related question to this, because it’s something that I’ve wondered. Um, and it’s something that house I also balance kind of, um, in my mind that I’m trying to race. Um, so do you consider your goals to racing and running and travel first? Or do you build your goals around environmental concerns first?

Clare Gallagher (21:46):

Yeah, I think, um, so I’ve been doing this professionally for four years now for, um, basically since 2016. And, and as I started, I was definitely more building, like a race schedule and like an, uh, a work schedule, um, based on like what, you know, the brands I was running for required. Um, and in the last few years, it’s completely pivoted to seeing like, K what, what yeah. Big environmental commitments do I have, like, I considered the election on environmental commitment this last year. So these the last, like six months leading up to the election and this was pre COVID. I, I didn’t plan any races. I didn’t plan any, um, international travel cause I knew I, I wanted to be in the U S a particular area in Colorado, and I’m lucky because I work for Patagonia and they value environmental engagement over racing, um, really over anything, everything it’s part of my job, uh, to care about, you know, say there’s like a big climate March, there was in 2018 and the, in September of 2018.

Clare Gallagher (23:03):

And so I kind of planned my fall around a climate March there. Um, and yeah, it ends up like kind of all working out, you know, I think anyone who everyone is balancing multiple goals or commitments in their lives. Um, I don’t have kids, you know, but I can imagine someone with like kids and a job and lots of family around the world, like, you know, you’re always like layering how you can double things up. Right. And so that’s what I’ve started to do with, with running more so and environmental issues. Um, yeah. And I’m intrigued by going to places that have some issues going on, you know, um, or say like a race that has a really rad, uh, environmental ethic or, um, I’m trying to not do races that are just kinda like, whatever, you know, I’m not to say that that that’s bad, but I want to be proud of, uh, braces I’m running and, and advocating for, you know, what the race directors stand for and how they run their race. And so, yeah, that’s really coming into my mind the last few years.

Hillary Allen (24:20):

Oh yeah. See, that’s, that’s awesome. And I feel like that’s kind of a way that every runner can be a little bit more kind of engaged and, um, involved because yeah, it’s all about the, like, you know, I think integrity basically

Clare Gallagher (24:32):

Like, you know, and some of these, yeah. Some of these big races, maybe you’re like, Oh, is there like anything interesting, you know, about ethics of how this race is run and, and I found you can often dig and learn, you know, more, there’s always more to a race than, than you might think. Um, like, Hey, are you donating any of your profits to a non-profit and then you like, look into that nonprofit, you know? And cause I I’ve been actually very impressed and surprised in my, like the last few years of, of choosing races and like, Whoa, like people, people are getting after good stuff. For example, like, like Sonoma, I didn’t realize that all of their profits go to, um, a really rad non nonprofit and in wine country, Sonoma that is essentially scholarships for, um, for kids whose parents work in the wine industry and, and fields. So, and I had no idea. Right. Yeah.

Hillary Allen (25:36):

Yeah. I was going to ask you for, do you have another example? Cause like I had no idea,

Clare Gallagher (25:40):

But you know, and even like, so the only race I really did, I guess I did a few more, I did, I did a handful in 2019, but I ran Western States. That was like the big one I did and why, you know, they they’ve gone couplets. They, they still, you know, have a few aid stations that I think like use maybe some single use cops, but, but they’ve made the commitment to like stop using single use stuff. More importantly, they have done things like their transgender runner policy actually incorporating a, uh, an inclusive, progressive policy at a world class race where, you know, if you’re a transgender woman running in Western States, you don’t have to prove anything to enter the race, you know, like that, that matters to me. And I think it should matter to everyone, you know? Um, so, and most people don’t know these things.

Clare Gallagher (26:42):

Right. And so it’s cool to Dave to see that some of these races in our community are, are actually doing a lot more than people might think. Um, yeah. Yeah. And not to mention Western States got rid of the word of, you know, the, the super racist misogynistic term that, that is named after, you know, uh, I’ll say it it’s Squaw Valley. Um, there finally they got rid of it. It’s gone. It’s, you know, no one using the hashtag anymore, everyone’s using see you at States. Um, you know, the, the ski resort is getting rid of, of that name. It’s Olympic village or, um, now it’s just like, yeah, Craig, Thornley like, you are our leader, you know, he’s her Western weights. Um, like I’m really proud of that, like that. And I see that as intrinsic with climate justice, right. If you’re listening to indigenous women about what’s offensive to them, you know, basically a colonized term, that’s one step in the right direction.

Hillary Allen (27:49):

I mean, this, we didn’t even talk about this, but this is kind of this whole like intersectional, um, environmentalist, this movement that’s kind of, um, I mean, in my mind it seems, do you, do you know much about this?

Clare Gallagher (28:00):

Yeah, yeah. And the gal who kind of has the new she’s has this great popular platform, Leah Thomas, um, worked for Patagonia. So I know her. Yeah. Yeah,

Hillary Allen (28:12):

Exactly. So, I mean, that’s another topic that people should look into, but I mean, you kind of touched on it a little bit with the indigenous, um, um, uh, population and kind of how that ties into environmental activism and advocacy. So,

Clare Gallagher (28:25):

Right. Like, is your race inviting, you know what I mean?

Hillary Allen (28:31):

Like Western States too with, um, I mean I had, I interviewed Gina, um, the Prezi, uh, on this podcast about trans sisters in Western States is one of the races that incorporated kind of a new program, progressive policy for women who have to defer due to pregnancy. So yeah.

Clare Gallagher (28:49):

So awesome. Yeah.

Hillary Allen (28:51):

Um, but I guess to tie back into, uh, to obviously like environmental wisdom and activism and advocacy, um,

Clare Gallagher (29:00):

How what’s, what’s

Hillary Allen (29:01):

Your best advice for trail owners to make a difference and be more involved in environmental advocacy or awareness?

Clare Gallagher (29:10):

Well, I would ask them first, what interests you? You know, if someone is really intrigued by politics, I’d say, K, I’m gonna recommend an organization like protector winners or sunrise movement, or even three fifty.org, um, where those organizations are educating and informing like members or people who are following along with, with really important policies that are happening. And then you can kind of like geek out, right? And then you can contact your representatives and senators and get all your friends to when the moment is necessary. You know, cause girls like in waves, right. With, with politics, it’s in waves. Like sometimes there’s not really much to be like getting out the word worried about. Um, but often there is, but say, that sounds like horrible to you and you just want nothing to do with anything. I just said, you know, do you like doing troll work?

Clare Gallagher (30:15):

I think there are so many of us trail runners, supposedly there’s 8.5 million of us that identify as trail runners in the U S and we could be pulling a little more weight when it comes to troll work. I know there are so many communities in the U S that are, you know, trail running groups like our, our Boulder group, Rocky mountain runners has been doing work even during COVID, they’ve found ways to do it safely. Um, but if, if going out and you know, why can’t I have the ground with a shovel sounds fun to you. Like that matters. Um, you’re just have no idea where to start. And you’re a big reader. It’s like, there’s, there’s so many books that you could, that you could read, you know, you could start with, um, if you’re big into like Twitter, it’s like, Hey, first follow all your representatives, your city council members, and like some climate scientists. Right. And, and just start to learn and immerse yourself and, and see what really peaks your interest. Cause I would hate to say to every trail runner, like, Hey, you got to get involved with this, or you got to do this amount of trail work a year. Um, you know, people need to do what they want to do. Yeah. I just believe that there’s so much we can do in the climate movement that, um, someone will always find their niche. Absolutely. I mean,

Hillary Allen (31:37):

And I think if people want to, that’s great advice because if people want to do what they’re passionate about, then it doesn’t even seem like work. It just kind of, it just happens and you get more just like more involvement anyways.

Clare Gallagher (31:49):

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean all the questions I had for you,

Hillary Allen (31:57):

We can talk about a whole bunch of other different things, but this is, um, I think this is a great start, like for people who are wanting to get more involved and kind of interested in seeing, you know, what exactly does it mean to be an environmental advocate or activist, as you said. And um, I mean, anyone who isn’t already following you, they should, because you’re involved with some really cool stuff and you make me super excited to like go trail running. And then it just it’s like, for me, it’s a troll writing seems like selfish. It’s like running. I feel like it’s such a solo activity, but like when I go running with you or I see like kind of the stuff that you’re doing, it’s like, yes, heck yes, like trail running can be part of this greater, bigger movement you can affect positive change. And it’s just really, it’s really inspiring. Yeah,

Clare Gallagher (32:43):

Absolutely. Well, thanks. Hell I, why we should get out soon and uh, yeah. I hope people are, you know, go easy on yourself too. I think sometimes if people may listen to these more environmental focused podcasts, they might think like, Oh, I’m not doing anything, but looking at your life and already seeing what you are doing matters, you know? Um, maybe you, you run like there’s, there’s so many things that people might be doing already. You know, we’ve kind of covered it from diet to travel options, to, um, you know, the brands you buy, things like that. And, um, give yourself a Pat on the back and then go ask your running buddy. Hey, like what do you think we should do next? You know? Cause I think the best work comes from collaboration and um, actually talking to other humans.

Hillary Allen (33:39):

I love that. Thanks Claire, on that note. Well thank you. And thanks so much for taking the time and as always, it’s so inspiring.