betalains podcast

Beetroot, Betalains, Phytochemicals And More With Jeff Van Drunen

Topics covered in this episode:

  • What are betalains?
  • What are the physiological effects of betalains?
  • Performance benefits highlighted in studies from betalain supplementation
  • The latest insights on phytochemicals

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Research Articles:

Other Resources:


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Episode Transcription:

Please note that this is an automated transcription and may contain errors. Please refer to the episode audio for clarification.

Speaker 1 (00:00:06):


Adam Pulford (00:00:07):

So our guest today is Jeff [inaudible]. Jeff, can you tell our listeners a bit more about yourself?

Jeff Van Durnen (00:00:14):

I sure can. Thank you. So my name is Jeff Andrew, Dan, thanks for the invite to the podcast today. I’m the president of serve phyto performance, as well as some supporting companies, one called Vanderman and farms, and one called future ceuticals, uh, describing myself. It’s maybe best summed up as I’m part horticulturist with roots in agriculture, uh, part engineer and scientist, and also a serious cycling enthusiast.

Adam Pulford (00:00:53):

We like all those on this show that for sure. Well, that’s in and just kind of off, uh, off interview thus far as getting to know Jeff A. Little bit more and he’s, he can tell, uh, the stories is a pretty interesting guy. And as you heard in our intro, I’ve got a story tale of one of your products, Jeff, and we will talk about that more in detail, but let’s first learn more about your company, its vision, and some history of it. So can you tell us what Sur is? What van Duren and farms is and kind of more of what you’re doing on a daily basis?

Jeff Van Durnen (00:01:33):

Yeah, vendor and, and farms was our start as a family agricultural business. So I started in the business right out of college. And we’re located in moments Illinois, which is about 40 miles straight south of Chicago. And here in momentous, we grow and process conventional and organic fruits, vegetables, and culinary herbs on our farms here. And we harvest every day during the season. And then we freeze or freeze dry these ingredients to be used in items you’d find in the grocery store on the grocery store shelves. So you might’ve seen like a cereal with the dried strawberries or blueberries raspberries. Those might be some products that we produced here in our facilities, or possibly tried a pasta sauce or a pesto or a Mexican SOLs that might contain our basil or cilantro. So yeah, we really got our start in the food ingredient business, and we’re still, still doing that today.

Adam Pulford (00:02:43):

Okay. Well just out of curiosity, I mean, how, how would I know that the strawberries are coming from your, your farms? What other companies have you partnered with to do this?

Jeff Van Durnen (00:02:52):

You know, which brands contain our fruit, but a lot of the brands that you’ll see out in the grocery store shelves do contain our dried fruit. Yeah.

Adam Pulford (00:03:03):

Interesting. Interesting. Yeah. So how did you spin off and get into phyto performance or

Jeff Van Durnen (00:03:11):

Vineyard and farms with the start? And then in the late nineties, we saw an opportunity to provide higher quality, uh, basically dried fruit and vegetable ingredients to the dietary supplement industry. And at that time it was kind of the age of herbals. So people were into St. John’s ward and [inaudible], but right about that time, people were getting more and more knowledge about phytochemicals, especially from fruits and vegetables. And we had this very unique way to drive things with our freeze drying process, which is a way to preserve a hundred percent of the phytonutrients in our product. So for example, we’ve in a dry probiotics or living bacteria, and if you dry bacteria in a freeze dryer there, they’re still alive. All you do is add water to them and they come right back to life. And so we had a great drying system and great raw materials.

Jeff Van Durnen (00:04:05):

And so we started a new company called future ceuticals and started to provide a very high quality plant material concentrates and extracts standardized to specific phytonutrients or plant phytochemicals. So since those days, and the, in the late nineties, we’ve expanded to be kind of a premier ingredient and Venter discover for the dietary supplement industry. So that, that’s how we shifted from being a commodity agricultural based business, to more of a, uh, you know, discovery and manufacturer of dietary supplement ingredients. And from there served vital performance was born out of this future ceuticals, uh, dietary supplement ingredient venture.

Adam Pulford (00:04:56):

That’s interesting. And thanks for providing that, that, that background. I think it’s, I think it’s important for where we’re going. Um, but just out of curiosity, why, so you’re all organic and all plant-based, is that correct? Well,

Jeff Van Durnen (00:05:09):

We do organic and conventional growing on our own farms and we do supply organic and conventional products, but yes, we are certified organic and all of our production facilities and processes. Okay. But

Adam Pulford (00:05:22):

Why plant-based,

Jeff Van Durnen (00:05:24):

So that’s a, that’s a great question. And, you know, nature provides this treasure trove of powerful phytochemicals that in a lot of cases remain today undiscovered. And so the number of plant phytochemicals out there is just incredible. And all of these natural compounds have some specific purpose in the plant and many have an additional specific benefit for human biological systems, but the list is so long and the time and energy needed to, uh, even crack the chest is pretty substantial, but it’s really an endless world to be discovered when you consider natural compounds found in plants and what positive effects they might have on human health. And everybody has a clue, Hey, eating plants is good, but specifically when you get down to the, you know, specific phytochemicals, we’re really in the business of, uh, isolating those and trying to do the work to discover what are they going to do? What are they going to affect in a biological system? And it’s just fascinating.

Adam Pulford (00:06:36):

Hmm. Yeah, that is fascinating. And I, in a, you know, my, my criticisms here as well is because of, you know, phytochemicals and what we’re talking about, you know, my peers, and even some listeners may come in and be like, whoa, this is a little, little wonky, a little out there, Adam, this is a little different than what you usually talk about. Um, but like, like you said, it’s a treasure trove and we’re learning, I mean, daily we’re, we’re learning yearly. So can you speak to maybe how you have gone about discovering the treasure trove and, and what kind of motivates you to get into this, this future ceuticals so to speak, like what drives you to do this?

Jeff Van Durnen (00:07:17):

Well, yeah, what drives us to do this is that we’ve seen, uh, in the studies that we’ve done, we have a discovery research center. And one of the things that we can do is today with very sophisticated, uh, testing equipment, you know, a person can take a food product and we can look at in real time changes in gene expression, every blood target targeted marker changes in cytokine chemokine and bread, and all’s inflammation, you name it. So, you know, if we, um, for example, give somebody a regular Coke and we start to monitor what changes happen in their body, 15 30, 45 minutes an hour after they consume a regular Coke, it’s pretty profound. What we can discover about, you know, the good and bad and, uh, consuming a regular Coca-Cola. And, uh, but we can do the same thing with plants, whole plants, and with plant extracts or concentrates that are highly concentrated and specific phytochemicals.

Jeff Van Durnen (00:08:28):

So the beauty of this is that, um, you know, people might think, Hey, you know, spinach is good for you, but, but it, it is good for you. It’s filled with all kinds of nutritious things, but specifically, if you did an extract of a plant and then you administered that to a person and you could see what effects it has in real time after they consume it, um, you can get a lot of clues on what should happen if you actually studied this in a clinical setting, whether it’s, you know, reducing cholesterol or whether it’s helping maintain blood glucose, or whether it’s helping with, uh, specific markers, uh, performance, um, by being able to look at this, you know, real time in an acute setting, uh, we can get very predictive and get a lot of clues on what these phytochemicals might actually do in the human body if we studied it on a larger population. And so we’re kind of in this discovery research mode where we’re looking at plant materials to find out which ones really have some interesting effects on humans.

Adam Pulford (00:09:33):

Yeah. That is, that is super cool. So I’m, I’m, I’m learning along with the listeners here. Um, so, uh, you know, I’m going to be enlightened as we go and you know, where we’re going is, is, uh, we’re going to talk about, uh, beta liens and your protocols alt red, which is it derived from beet root? Is that correct? That’s correct. Yeah. Okay. So I’m a big fan of beetroot, as you know, and I’m a huge fan boy of Andy beetroot Jones, which you’ve, you’ve met and consulted with, right? Yes,

Jeff Van Durnen (00:10:04):

I have. I have,

Adam Pulford (00:10:06):

Well, I am, uh, I’m very, I have FOMO for, for, from that meeting and hopefully he’ll come on the podcast and we’ll talk about, uh, some of this too, but before we get into all red and beta liens and what, what that actually does, I want to provide a quick overview of kind of what I know of this. And then we’ll talk about like, very specifically about what beta liens are in kind of this, a treasure trove of, of, uh, performance, if you will. So, um, just to remind the listeners is when we’re talking about a beet root supplement, um, in Jeff, please, correct me if I’m wrong here, but high level beet root contains nitrates in dietary nitrate converts to nitric oxide in the body, which can promote vasodilation and increase oxygen to the working muscles. This can decrease perceived effort for given effort pace or power, or it can also increase performance in various ways. Just like those markers I talked about, um, all linked toward cardiovascular benefits. And that obviously is advantageous to the endurance athlete, a high level of my tracking correctly there, Jeff

Jeff Van Durnen (00:11:15):

It’s true. All the scientific studies on the consumption of beet juice and its effect on performance are exactly as you’ve just outlined.

Adam Pulford (00:11:24):

Okay. And so, you know, like you said, these points are well-established, there are, you know, criticisms of beet root and in where the beats are coming from, how you’re taking it, what you’re doing. Uh, w one thing that always blows people mind is, you know, a lot of that is con started to convert in the mouth. So the bacteria in the mouth, as well as the gut helps to convert that into nitric oxide. And then at some point we’ll maybe have maybe when we talk about, uh, or to Andy Jones, we can talk specifics on that. But from my understanding, beta liens are not nitrates and there’s something different going on here in this treasure trove of red pigmented stuff.

Jeff Van Durnen (00:12:06):

Right. That’s true. And so, yeah, all the scientific studies that you’ve referenced are there, and, you know, since beta lanes don’t contain any nitrates or all red beta lanes don’t contain any nitrates, you know, one question, you know, are the effects of beets, um, due just to the president of plant nitrates, or is there something else in the beat that adds onto this effect or is part of the effect it’s very interesting to contemplate because when you look at the information from our studies, um, you, you have to ask that question.

Adam Pulford (00:12:44):

You do, you do. And I’m going to ask you that question, but later on this conversation first for our listeners who have no idea what we’re talking about, can you tell us what alt red is and what the heck beta liens are? Sure.

Jeff Van Durnen (00:12:58):

Cool. So first what beta lanes are not. So just the term beta lane gets a little confusing cause there’s some similar, uh, named compounds out there. So they’re not plant nitrates. So this has nothing to do with plant nitrates in beets. It’s not beta alanine, it’s not, [inaudible] from beads. It’s very specific phytochemical compound. That’s found in just a few places in nature. So it’s the pigment in beets. And this pigment is a different pigment than what you’d find in blueberries and raspberries and strawberries. It’s found really just in beets, a few cactus plants and a few flowers. So it’s very rare in nature. So you would think, oh, the red color and beets, that must be everywhere, but no, it’s not. And I’m interesting. It’s just in a handful of plants that you’ll find this a substance.

Adam Pulford (00:13:52):

And, and is it, is it only in red beets or is it in like yellow beets as well? Or

Jeff Van Durnen (00:13:57):

So there’s a red group of beta lanes called beta sign-ins. It’s a yellow group of beta lanes called beta Zan thins, and both are found in beets. So when you see a beat and you see the red color, you’re only seeing the red color, but the yellow color is there side by side with it. It’s just that the red color is drowning out the yellow color. And you might see, for example, a yellow beat in the grocery store. That’s just a beat bread, not to have any beta sign-ins only beta Zan thins. And so a regular red beat is 50% red and 50% yellow. It’s just that you can’t see the yellow.

Adam Pulford (00:14:36):

Well, my mind has already blown. This is fantastic. Um, so what’s, um, I take it in all red. We’re just talking about the red pigments or does that have both?

Jeff Van Durnen (00:14:45):

It’s both. So this is actually a concentration of all the beta lanes, all the betas thins and all the beta site science in the beat. And so we have both red and yellow color in the alt red beta lanes. But when you look at it, it looks red because yeah, the red overpowers, the yellow. Okay.

Adam Pulford (00:15:05):

So we talked about what beta liens are not, we’re starting to describe what they are. So why, like, why does it make our bodies go better and go harder? Which we’ll talk about that performance aspect, but why have there been curiosities of performance in these badaling pigment

Jeff Van Durnen (00:15:26):

Colors? Yeah. This is where it starts to get interesting. So we noticed that nobody had done any work on beta lanes. So it was just like a white space out there in the scientific community. And we spent a lot of time trying to figure out, well, how can we actually extract or concentrate these beta lanes? Because it hadn’t been done before. And at the same time, it was well-known that beta lanes aren’t very stable. And so, you know, if you expose beta lanes to a low pH or are extremely high pH, they start to break down easily. So they’re a little bit fragile when you subject them to heat. You know, for example, like just the process to make a canned beet or a beet juice, the beta lanes are damaged very easily in that process, the beet juice or the canned beads will still look red because it’s a pretty powerful pigment, but they’re actually damaged.

Jeff Van Durnen (00:16:21):

And a lot of them just are gone, uh, by the time, you know, for example, a can of beets or they’re pretty heavily destroyed, but we’re the first company. And we spent years doing this, figuring out a process to extract and stabilize the beta lanes from red beets. And that was really the starting point of us being able to study the by biological effects of the beta lanes in the human body. So it, it really started with a process to be able to extract and stabilize these beta lanes. Cause because that had never been done before.

Adam Pulford (00:16:57):

So what made you like, what was the point at which you made a decision that, Hey, it’s, it’s not just beats, it is something else. What made you go all in on bottlings?

Jeff Van Durnen (00:17:09):

So we developed this process and we were able to produce our first few grams of the beta Layne extract. Start to characterize that from, uh, taking a look at what spectrum of beta lanes were in there, because it’s not just one beta lane, it’s a spectrum of different red and yellow beta lanes in the beat. And, um, we also noticed that as soon as the beta lanes were separated from the sugars, the fiber and the plant material and, and dried and extracted the way that we, uh, put the process together that at that point in the dry form, they were very stable. And so we realized that we had something kind of special because for the first time we could take a pure, concentrated beta lane material and take a look at what this stuff really can do in people. And that was, that was a big step forward. And so we really just put it through our discovery research platform and that’s where the journey began.

Adam Pulford (00:18:14):

Interesting. So you mentioned in, this was something that I was learning in my research here, um, is the, uh, the, the fragility of beta liens from the processing either its exposure to light exposure, to oxygen heat, this type of thing with what you just described of your extraction extraction process. And you claiming that they are very stable in that form. How have you, we’re probably skipping ahead here a little bit, but is it stable in that form and in a pill form that you have, or what other like considerations have you taken to, to make sure that it is stable from when it leaves your facility to where, you know, it comes down? Yeah. So,

Jeff Van Durnen (00:18:57):

So when we produce the product, I mean, initially we started doing shelf life tests on the product in a capsule in the same bottle that we’re using today. And remember there’s accelerated shelf life tests that you can do where you expose it to a high heat and high humidity, um, to accelerate what would happen in real time. But since we’ve been working on this project for 12 years now, um, we’ve had plenty of time to do time shelf, life tests. And so in, in, you know, 48 months, we don’t see a substantial degradation and the beta lane content. Um, so I mean a 24 month shelf life is the products perfectly stable. Now, as soon as that’s in the dry form and a capsule, as soon as you would take that, for example, if you took the capsule and put it in water, uh, it was becomes very unstable. So if you were going to put this into a water bottle, you know, you should probably drink the water bottle in an hour. Um, and it’s the beta lanes will be destroyed probably by the next morning. So they start to degrade very fast in a liquid, uh, solution. And we have done some work, you know, looking at stability and gels and that kind of thing. But the color is so intense. If you take a, a baby delayed gel, you know, your mouth, uh, will look a little bit scary. It is very bowel.

Adam Pulford (00:20:24):

Okay, well, I won’t do that.

Adam Pulford (00:20:27):

Okay. So we’re going to get into, well, let’s kind of like swim back a little high level because it’s, it is all about this performance, right? That that’s why you created the product. And that’s why we’re talking about here on this podcast. We’ve got some research that we will go a little bit deeper into, but in general, you’re making faster by, by using this, this product now, what makes all diff already different than some other products out there in terms of like the beta liens that you’re using or how much it’s in there? What’s the difference? Okay.

Jeff Van Durnen (00:21:01):

Well, as we were talking about, we figured out how to concentrate this, and we actually came up with a product that’s a 25%, uh, beta lane, pure concentration, stripped it’s beta lanes that are stripped of sugars, nitrates, beat fibers. So basically we have a process where we can just grab the beta lanes out of the beets and they’re outside of the normal matrix that you’d find them in, in the, in the beet plant or in a beet juice. And just to explain it a little more, uh, when we started this project again, there was very little scientific interest in beta lanes and, and beets for that matter. This was even before really the first clinical studies came out at on beet juice. And right when we started this project, that’s when everybody got interested in V2 switches, which was interesting. But we had indications from our early studies that, you know, these beta lanes were very active in biological systems.

Jeff Van Durnen (00:22:02):

And we thought, possibly this was another, you know, phytochemical hidden in plain sight. So we started to put some work into it. And then we had, uh, when we produced this first material at 25%, this would be the equivalent of a 200 times concentration. So it would take, you know, 200 pounds of beets to make one pound of our 25% material. So it’s pretty highly concentrated material. And then another thing that, you know, we had studied quite a bit on was the fact that beta lanes were very poorly bioavailable. So it’s hard for the body to absorb beta lanes.

Adam Pulford (00:22:46):

What do you mean by bioavailable?

Jeff Van Durnen (00:22:48):

So, um, you could, you can consume a product that contains any kind of plant polyphenol or phytochemicals, but that doesn’t mean that, I mean, you, might’ve heard stories about, you know, you can take too many vitamins, but that doesn’t mean your body’s going to absorb all the vitamins that you can assume. Uh, they’re not really bioavailable it’ll your body will take in a few of them, but anything over that, you know, you’re basically just going to pee them out. So, um, bioavailability is really how much of a product that you take orally into your system is then actually going to get in this case, into your blood. So, um, if it just goes into your stomach and then you excrete it, somehow you can consume a product, but that doesn’t mean that it’s actually going to be available for use in your body. Those are two totally different things.

Jeff Van Durnen (00:23:44):

And so what we did is we knew that there was this issue with beta lanes, and we confirm that once we separate the beta lanes from this native plant matrix, um, the bioavailability, the ability of people to absorb the beta lanes increased dramatically. And so it was about a 10 X increase in the amount of beta lanes that’s absorbed into the body. So we did some bioavailability studies, which basically means you give a person beet juice or whole beads, or, uh, the alt red beta lane extract. And then you look at what percentage of the beta lanes they consumed actually shows up in the blood. So we can actually take a sample of people’s blood and measure the beta LN content in their blood. And in the studies we did, it’s about a 10 X factor as far as how much beta lane is absorbed. Once it’s separated and concentrated from the plant matrix, they become very bioavailable. So, you know, one of the things we, we kind of talk about is it’s derived from beets, but it’s, it’s difficult to get from beats the actual beta lane, a molecule.

Adam Pulford (00:24:57):

Okay. Yeah, that makes, that makes a lot of sense, um, on the bioavailability, especially when you’re stripping it down and, and allowing the body to just purely absorbed with, uh, in getting rid of that, the rest of that stuff. Um, so do we still see some people who maybe can’t metabolize just pure beta liens or is everybody just going to have a response?

Jeff Van Durnen (00:25:18):

That’s an interesting question. Um, you know, they estimate about 14% of the population has be Turia meaning the inability to metabolize and process, uh, beta lanes. And so pigs, they’re certain people and beets and beets. So there’s certain people, if they eat beets, you know, it shoots right through them. And they’re peeing a stream of red, which is again, very frightening when you see that you’re wondering what’s going wrong. And yeah, it says to me in about 14% of the population has this, sometimes it’s due to having a low, low iron levels. So that’s, it can be an indication that you’re low on iron, but I’m not always. And the interesting thing is that with the beta LN product, I mean, it’s extremely rare that we have anyone who would report be Turia. There may have been a few over the years who’ve experienced it. Um, and I don’t know if they were taking the product alongside with some other beat product, but it appears that at the dosage that we’re giving and with the bioavailability of these beta lanes, we don’t see P Tyria from anyone. So it’s another indication that something’s changed as far as the body’s ability, you know, to assimilate this material.

Adam Pulford (00:26:40):

Yeah, that’s, that is really interesting because I do know some athletes and it’s even happened to myself, um, with bacteria has NSA. Yeah. Um, where I’ve had experience that with already, I have not. And other beet products that I’m currently taking, I haven’t either. So either, either I’m not the 14% or, or, uh, the bioavailability is just so high,

Jeff Van Durnen (00:27:04):


Adam Pulford (00:27:04):

To say hard to say hard to say. Um, so kind of bring it back here. So our listeners don’t get lost with us in our nerdy scientific stuff that we’re talking about. What effects are we really purporting here with? Badaling like, if you take it, what can an athlete expect? Um,

Jeff Van Durnen (00:27:25):

Okay. So I could tell you what we know about beta lanes and what we’ve learned from our studies on beta lanes maybe first, and then we can go into what we’ve actually found in our clinicals. Um,

Adam Pulford (00:27:41):

Let’s start there and then we’ll just kind of go from there.

Jeff Van Durnen (00:27:44):

So, you know, earlier Adam, you talked about nitric oxide and the cardio benefits of nitric oxide increases. And, uh, really there’s two methods by which a beta lanes work two main methods. I’ll, I’ll call it nitric oxide is one pathway and the other pathway would be oxidative stress as the two main mechanisms that beta lanes can affect performance and recovery. And the interesting thing is that our bodies are able to produce their own nitric oxide. So we don’t, you know, our bodies are very efficient at making nitric oxide. Um, the interesting thing about the beta Laine consumption is that it stimulates our body to produce more nitric oxide, um, but in a very unique way. And so, you know, one aspect of beats is the dietary nitrates, but this product doesn’t contain any nitrates and it still stimulates your body to produce its own nitric oxide. So that’s interesting. And it turns out, I mean, we’ve spent a lot of time working on this. It turns out that beta LN stimulate production of a stable form of nitric oxide called nitrous isolated hemoglobin. And so hemoglobin normally picks up two oxygens and circulates those through, and that’s the oxygen your, your muscles actually need to, you know,

Adam Pulford (00:29:18):

It’s interesting,

Jeff Van Durnen (00:29:19):

But, but with, um, and I translated hemoglobin, this is when a few of your hemoglobin will pick up a nitric oxide instead of an oxygen. So they have one oxygen and one nitric oxide attached to it. And it turns out that these beta Llanes stimulate the production of this nitrous related hemoglobin. And it takes about an hour or two after you consume the product for your nitrous related hemoglobin level to go up. And the other interesting thing is, you know, your body’s making nitric oxide all the time. Uh, but nitric oxide in the body has a very short half-life, it’s less than a second free nitric oxide and it’s gone. So it makes it and consumes it immediately. But in this complex form with hemoglobin, the half-life of this nitrous slated hemoglobin is up to six hours. So, I mean, it’s very long life nitric oxide attached to hemoglobin that’s circulating through your body, kind of as a signaling mechanism to deliver vassal dilation to a place where it’s needed. Um, that’s the mechanism by which this nitrous related hemoglobin works so

Adam Pulford (00:30:37):

Well. That is, yeah. Keep going, sorry. Didn’t mean to interrupt the flow

Jeff Van Durnen (00:30:42):

So your body can actually produce its own nitrogen related hemoglobin, and it does that everybody’s body can do it. It does it all the time, but it won’t do it unless it’s due to some localized decrease in, in mush muscle oxygen saturation. So when you get into a hypoxic state, your body is going to start to produce its own nitric oxide. And a lot of this will be in the form of nitrous lated, hemoglobin. So for example, you know, if you’re doing a hard effort, you’re is going to have muscles that the oxygen level starts to drop down on, and your body’s going to start to react to that and try to counteract that by increasing dilation to those muscles that are starved for oxygen and the way it does this is through nitrous related hemoglobin, but it takes some time and you have to get into this hypoxic state before it’s going to do that.

Adam Pulford (00:31:35):

Yep. And that’s actually, well, well cited in Andy Jones is research. I’ll see, I’ll try to find the one that I was reading in listening to this, um, this past weekend, but that’s exactly what he’s talking about in terms of there needs to be, you know, um, basically enough anaerobic stress in order to make that occur within the body. But it seems like kind of coming back to, um, beta liens, they’re able to kind of beat that catalyst in a more stable way. Is that what,

Jeff Van Durnen (00:32:05):

Yeah. Yeah. So if let’s say that you go into, uh, an exercise or an effort, um, and you’re actually preloaded with nitrous related hemoglobin, that’s really what we’re talking about here, uh, before you perform, I mean, that’s going to have a dramatic effect on your performance because it’s almost like your body’s primed or pre preloaded for the exercise that hasn’t happened yet. And so as soon as you go into that low oxygen state, this a nitride isolated hemoglobin signaling mechanism is going to kick right into action. And so, you know, that’s a big part of how this works and we know that, you know, it takes about an hour or two to kind of peak with your nitrous lay to hemoglobin after you consume out red, which is what we look at. And this is a very stable form of nitric oxide. So it’s easy to measure, um, from the standpoint, you know, it doesn’t disappear.

Jeff Van Durnen (00:33:07):

So a lot of times on the state, they have a little bit of a harder time on the studies where they’re looking at nitric oxide from nitrates, because basically you’re consuming nitrates, but then what they’re actually checking for your blood in your blood is nitrates. And so they’re not directly measuring, uh, nitric oxide. They’re measuring nitrates after you consume nitrates. So it’s a little bit tricky to understand, you know, how much nitric oxide was actually produced, but in this case, we can actually measure it because this is a stable form of nitric oxide, if that makes any sense. And, uh, it takes about two hours, one to two hours, and then it’s going to drop off over the next three to four hours. And so it peaks in at the two hour mark, and then it starts to tail off over the next four hours, the level of, of nitric or nitrous related hemoglobin that that’s produced by your body. And this is, um, what we call endogenous production. So it’s just stimulating your body to make something it can make on its own.

Adam Pulford (00:34:12):

Yeah, that’s fascinating. Well, we’ll talk about how to use this product here in just a minute, but, you know, with your description of Nitrox Knight, Trasa, lated, hemoglobin spiking, and being, uh, basically, um, you’re setting the stage for some very good performance to happen. I mean, you guys make some pretty bold claims. Do you want to talk about those claims from, uh, some of the clinical research and basically what I grabbed off of your guys’s website?

Jeff Van Durnen (00:34:43):

Sure, sure. Happy to do that. So, yeah, I mean, some of the highlights from our studies, we’ve completed three clinical studies on actual athletes doing athletic performance. We have other studies where it’s not in a performance setting, but, um, yeah, some of the highlights, you know, for cyclists, you know, the averaging increase in wattage, uh, alt red versus non out red is about three and a half percent on average, um, runners like in

Adam Pulford (00:35:15):

A time trial format or

Jeff Van Durnen (00:35:17):

Time trial format. Yep. Okay. Yep. Runners, same thing, time trial format, like a 10 K all out time trial, pretty much 3% faster across the board. Another interesting thing is that when they’re putting out more Watson in a cyclist setting or more speed for a runner, I’m doing a survey of the group, they all felt like they had less exertion. So there’s a 15% reduction in perceived exertion by the people that were participating in these studies, which is pretty shocking. So they’re actually putting out more, but they’re not, they’re not feeling like their body is suffering as much, which is an interesting observation.

Adam Pulford (00:36:06):

That’s a very interesting observation and a very important, uh, aspect to note. I was just looking up the cycling study and it was a 30 minute time trial in particular. Yeah. But yeah, in reading the, these three, um, research articles, the perceived effort was notable in all of them, um, in, in conjunction with the actual increase of performance, the perceived effort always coming down. So, um, anyway,

Jeff Van Durnen (00:36:34):

Sorry. Yeah. So that was a very interesting observation. Um, obviously if you’re putting out more work, you shouldn’t feel like you’re putting out less work

Adam Pulford (00:36:43):

And that’s why I bring it up.

Jeff Van Durnen (00:36:45):

And, uh, another interesting thing is that, you know, we saw a 9% reduction in markers of muscle damage. So as your muscles are damaged, which in a lot of situations can be a good thing, it can be a good thing and a bad thing, but, uh, there was a reduction in muscle damage and that muscle damage is products released from the muscle cells, um, when they’re damaged. So we can measure that. And then there was also 14% less lactate production in the alt red group versus the control group, uh, effectively, you know, increasing your lactate threshold. And again, when we talk about muscle damage and lactate threshold, lactic acid production, lactic acid production could be good muscle damage. It could be good, but in this case you’re doing it, um, at a higher level. So, um, it, it is kind of a tool to allow your body to perform at a higher level, um, without getting to the point where you hit that lactic acid threshold or your muscles start to get damaged. So it’s very interesting results that, um, we found in these studies.

Adam Pulford (00:38:05):

It is interesting, and I’m glad you brought up the point that it’s like, okay, you know, it is interesting. There’s a time and place for this because that’s exactly where my mind goes. Cause it’s like, eh, I don’t always want that. Right. And so I think this will transition into how do we take this, but I’m guessing you would agree with me that if I go out on a, I don’t know, a two hours zone to endurance ride, I, I don’t necessarily need to pop a bunch of all red before I go do that. Is that correct?

Jeff Van Durnen (00:38:34):

That’s correct. Don’t necessarily need to

Adam Pulford (00:38:36):

Do that. Okay. Um, so how, how would you suggest taking this? Like what, what are the key days where we would take out red and, um, kind of kind of pre during and post, if it applies, what do you recommend?

Jeff Van Durnen (00:38:52):

Yeah, so, you know, one of the questions that people have often is, you know, do I have to load with this stuff? Do I have to take it for a week? So we’ve noticed that in all these studies and just with people, um, that take it for the first time that many of the people notice the effect the very first time they take it. So if they take it one to two hours before it, uh, event not preloading, uh, previous to that, um, they actually report, Hey, I felt a lot better. I wrote a lot stronger. And so the pre-loading isn’t, you know, necessary, um, at all. So you’ll feel it the first time you take it, if you’re a responder to this, that being said, you know, a lot of people use alt red as a training tool, uh, in their daily training to help with daily performance and recovery.

Jeff Van Durnen (00:39:47):

Again, it depends where you’re at and what you’re trying to accomplish, but, you know, a tool to make incremental gains over time is another way that some people use it. So they want to push themselves, uh, in their training program, both their training and the recovery program to kind of push a little harder on those hard training days, recover a little better. So kind of push their body past the limit that they would normally be able to get to. And then back off and recover, do the same thing on some kind of cadence. So it, it really depends on, you know, what kind of program you are, what your goals are and what you’re trying to accomplish, but it can be taken just on the day of an event. And you’ll definitely feel the effects if you’re a responder to beta lanes or, um, you can use it on a daily basis as far as your daily, you know, training and recovery. So it’s really very athlete specific on how you might want to use it, but I, I view it as a tool and you have to decide how you want to use the, the tools in your toolbox, you know?

Adam Pulford (00:40:53):

Yeah, very much so agreed. And actually the, one of the previous episodes I did were we were talking about this event that I did, uh, down in Asheville. It was a BWR event. And, um, I rode with, uh, w one of the guys at super sapiens. And so we had a great day of riding bikes, but I know I just felt great the entire time. And I had taken the, all red and was going, going, going, but the very, very final eight mile climate. And again, sorry, listeners for you to hear this story yet again, but I did like explode because like I hadn’t. Um, so I had taken out red, like, I think I’d taken one before and then like one we’re talking like a five-hour event. Yeah. And when you do more mechanical work than you’ve ever done before, that’s still a very high stress to the body.

Adam Pulford (00:41:43):

And when you’re somebody like me who may be like skips out on their volume from time to time, I just couldn’t handle all that load on the day. So I just started to go way backwards on the final headline. So it’s not like this stuff makes you impervious, but in this can even happen. I’ve seen this happen to my athletes in a, in a really good taper, or if they come down from altitude, you know, at some point there’s these checks and balances mechanically for your body, not to, you know, uh, do too much. Right. So, you know, in that particular case, as a reason why I bring it up is even though you may have another cool tool in the tool chest here with all red, you still have physiological limits and it does have that. Everybody does. Yeah. So we’re not, we’re not over promising here. Uh, however, uh, I think the bottle says, take one, like an hour before, and then one, every one to two hours during exercise, if you want the effect, is that correct? If you’re going to go on,

Jeff Van Durnen (00:42:37):

On a longer training period or a competitive event, um, you can take, you know, up to three or four of them during a four or five hour ordeal, like the Belgian waffle ride. And, uh, it will, you, you will feel the effects, but normally on a normal day, people will take it, you know, an hour or two before their workout and save this extra dose until you’re actually going to do a longer effort. And, um, that’s, that’s what I do personally.

Adam Pulford (00:43:10):

Okay. And I’ll pose the question to you and Eleanor, I’ll bring this up. Cause I asked this to Jackie, um, uh, the original person I met through, uh, Sur, um, who’s an ultra runner, but I asked her, is there any detriment to long-term user just taken a bunch of it? And she said that she did a, an ultra, I think she ran for 12 hours total. And then she did one every one to two hours, you know, no issue. But, uh, speaking to the, the master here, I mean, any, any detriment to long-term use or overusing?

Jeff Van Durnen (00:43:44):

Well, the one nice thing is it’s a natural product and something that is found in nature and your body can metabolize. And so we don’t have any reports or evidence that over a longer time period there’s been any negative or detrimental effects. Um, so the nice thing is that it, it is all natural and it is a product that your body is built to metabolize. And so we don’t know of any negative effects from taking the product on a daily basis. And there’s certainly no negative effects from taking, you know, three or four capsules over the course of, you know, four or five hours. Gotcha. Okay. We’re talking about, it’s interesting because we’re actually talking about a very low dose of these beta lanes that are bioavailable. So in each capsule, there’s 12.5 milligrams of beta lanes, which has a very small amount of material to see an effect like this.

Adam Pulford (00:44:49):

Yeah, yeah. That’s good to know. That’s good to know. Um, well, let’s talk about some criticisms if you will. I mean, I, um, I feel like, uh, just in terms of balancing this out and, and taking my bias away from this, um, is kind of coming back to what I know or what, uh, what we know a lot of research with some of the beet root products is it seems like for elite athletes or somebody who is perpetuated with, um, uh, beat supplementation, um, there may be a point or just individuals that don’t respond to be root product is badaling the same thing in that regard responders versus

Jeff Van Durnen (00:45:32):

That’s an interesting question because it’s not something that’s talked about very often, but I don’t know of any product, whether it’s a supplement or a drug where, you know, a hundred percent of the people respond and it’s not something you hear too much about, uh, when people are talking about their clinical studies, um, or whether it’s a drug or a supplement, but there’s always people who respond and there’s always people who don’t respond and it’s, it just depends on how your body’s built and what it’s built for. And so it’s, it’s always important to remember with any supplement that whatever claims are made and whatever slick marketing there is, um, you may or may not respond to it. So just, just because, uh, you read the results, um, everyone is not a responder to everything and that, and that’s really good to keep in mind. So there are people who respond very well. Uh, the first time they take it and we do get people who report, they K you know, I just, I just don’t feel anything when I take this product. And so, uh, we always have to acknowledge that there’s going to be not responders and non-responders to, to every product out there.

Adam Pulford (00:46:48):

Sure. And is there any, uh, have you heard or seen this in the research in any sort of plateau with beta leans, like meaning, okay, I’ve taken this for, I don’t know, three months, I’ve taken this for three years now, or, and I’m not feeling the effects anymore, and he’s cycling in and out of this product that is necessary.

Jeff Van Durnen (00:47:07):

We haven’t seen any of that. Um, I’ve been taking it myself for probably the last 10 years. And again, um, I don’t know what would happen if you took, you know, four capsules a day, every day, maybe you would build up a tolerance or maybe your body wouldn’t respond anywhere. I’m not sure, but I mean, the typical athlete that’s using alt red is, is really taking it, you know, probably on average every other day, there might be a few people who take it every day for their training. Um, or they wait until they do their longer weekend rides, something like that. So we haven’t noticed anybody coming back and saying, Hey, this used to work for me and it doesn’t work anymore.

Adam Pulford (00:47:55):

Gotcha. Okay.

Jeff Van Durnen (00:47:56):

But we don’t, we’ve never studied that in, in a clinical study, so.

Adam Pulford (00:48:00):

Okay. Yeah. Good to know. Um, so Mike, last criticism, critical question is if you’re one of our listeners right now in, then you may be thinking, well, this sounds too good to be true. Jeff, what would you say to that listener? That’s like, Hey, I’m a little skeptical here.

Jeff Van Durnen (00:48:18):

If it sounds too good to be true, it is, um, there’s no magic pill. There’s no substitute for putting in the work, eating well, sleeping, well, you know, everything you need to do to perform. So you need to view out red as a training tool, uh, something that’ll assist you in your training, depending on what your goals are. You have to consider whether you’re like you said, a responder or not responder. And, uh, so many people report that it helps them train at a high level and a higher level and able to push themselves further than they would be able to push themselves without it. Uh, but also you really can do is put it to the test. And like we said, there might be people who respond super well and others who don’t respond at all, but it, there’s no magic in a pill and there’s no way around the hard work and proper nutrition and sleep. So if it sounds too good to be true, it is

Adam Pulford (00:49:15):

May I I’m really glad you said that because I’ve had really good days taking this up, but I’ve had really good days not taking this stuff. And in particular, there’s one hard training day was like, I had a couple of hard train days in a row. I didn’t sleep too good those days. I went out for another hard group ride. I did some, all red and I was like, man, they’re like, there is no amount of red or, or amp human PR lotion or whatever. They can like pull me out of this funk right now. Right, right, right. So fatigue still occurs. We still have limitations. So I’m glad, I’m glad you brought that up. Wow. So we went on a pretty deep dive here with alt red. Uh, Jeff, do we still have some time to talk about your other product? Sure.

Jeff Van Durnen (00:50:01):

Okay. Yeah, that would be great. Okay.

Adam Pulford (00:50:03):

Well, we’ll probably skim a little bit more high level on this just in the nature of time, but I think for our listeners, it’ll be good and informative to hear about, uh, your immunity products. So could you tell us a bit more of what it is or perhaps like I’ll read, maybe we start with what it isn’t

Jeff Van Durnen (00:50:21):

Sure. Yeah. So this is a product called sir immunity. And, uh, as you know, every living plant animal undergoes, oxidative stress during respiration, um, this guys is, you know, free radicals to pre-produced or unpaired electrons to be released, and they have to be neutralized by your body and your body makes its own antioxidants to neutralize these as well as relies on exogenous or external antioxidants to help combat this. And so, um, even, even during exercise, it’s interesting, you know, your mitochondria, uh, really release a lot of free radicals. I mean, without proper nutrition and a way to, um, you know, get rid of those free radicals in an efficient way, you lose a lot of efficiency, even in the powerhouses of your muscles due to oxidative stress during exercise

Adam Pulford (00:51:21):

Real quick, Jeff, what does the free radicals or the unpaired electrons do? What is the negative that we’re talking about?

Jeff Van Durnen (00:51:29):

So basically they damage cells. They cause inflammation, they stop enzymatic reactions from happening. So, I mean, if we go back to, to athletes, mitochondria, they produce ATP. That’s where we get our power from that’s our energy. And, you know, as soon as you have, you know, free radicals, uh, produced in the mitochondria, if they’re not removed immediately, I mean, basically your ATPase doesn’t work properly. And so you can’t actually even convert an ATP as fast as you did before. And so it’s basically like bad exhaust coming out of, uh, you know, absolutely gasoline burning engine. And, uh, you don’t want it to be in pumped right back into the, the cab of the car because everybody’s going to die. So you have to get rid of the exhaust and neutralize it as fast as it’s produced. Good enough.

Adam Pulford (00:52:27):

So, uh, all right. So good lesson on, uh, uh, free radicals and what happens there. So what does, what does immunity do for us?

Jeff Van Durnen (00:52:39):

So immunity it’s interesting. Um, we, we spent a lot of time looking at this treasure trove of phytochemicals. And one of the things that we kept running into in our discovery research was that if we start out with a small amount of a phytochemical, it was had really strong antioxidant properties. And as we increase the dosage of that phytochemical, you know, that activity decreased pretty quickly. And once we got over a certain threshold, every single one of these anti-oxidants turned into a pro-oxidant. And so, you know, an overdose of antioxidants what’s touted to be healthy, uh, actually turns into a pro-oxidant and causes your body to produce free radicals. And those have is over and over again in everything that we study. So, I mean, it might be just the society we live in, but, you know, if a little is good, more is better and actually the way nature intended things to be a little bit of, a lot of different phytochemicals in this case is very effective, but a large dose of all these different phytochemicals or anyone actually it’s even worse. If you pick one in particular, that’s, that’s the worst scenario. Um, it actually becomes a pro-oxidant. Yeah. So that’s, that’s how we get started in this.

Adam Pulford (00:54:01):

Yeah. That’s but I, but I, I, I say in a very regular basis, like everything is bell curves and thresholds, there’s always some sort of tipping point. Right. Always. Yeah. Okay. So you joke, you dove into the treasure troves, you found this bell curve or this threshold aspect of antioxidants and pro-oxidants. So how did you decide what goes in immunity? What is in immunity in, why do you, why did you decide to produce it?

Jeff Van Durnen (00:54:32):

Yes, we wanted a broad spectrum of different phytochemicals. Um, so we really knew that a small amount of each of these phytochemicals is important and a large doses detrimental. And so we did, uh, a process of screening, uh, different plant-based phytochemicals for their ability, um, to attack different groups of free radicals. There’s quite a bit of different groups of free radicals that you can look at. And so we found the strongest ones that were effective at the lowest doses. And then what we did is, um, you know, there’s, there’s very few antioxidants that have actually been tested, none that I know of, uh, for their actual activity in real time and people. So normally an antioxidant is viewed as it has the potential. So it’s kind of a test tube test. You take a, you take a product, vitamin C, you put it in a test, you, then you could see what its potential anti-oxidant, uh, free, radical quenching ability would be if you absorbed it all and it actually worked in your body, but nobody ever did a study where they were looking at the, the actual level of free radicals in real time after you take a product.

Jeff Van Durnen (00:55:49):

So we, uh, did some experience with these individual phytochemicals and tried to find the minimum effective dose of these different phytochemicals. Then we combined these and actually studied these in people in real time. And the results were pretty profound. And these, this is a small dosage of, you know, it’s a little over 400 different phytochemicals in there. And the ability to, um, affect the level of free radicals in the body in real time, uh, was really strong. And so we saw a 20% reduction in reactive oxygen species in the blood after people consume this product, a 34% reduction in inflammatory response after they took the product and a 42% reduction in mitochondrial reaction, reactive oxygen species. And so, um, it was a pretty dramatic effect with a very low dose of a wide variety of different plant polyphenols. These are all polyphenols and, uh, their ability to work in concert, kind of like the way nature intended. I mean, eating a little bit of a lot of different things, uh, grazing all day long.

Adam Pulford (00:57:12):

Yeah. I was just about to ask, I mean, I am not an expert in phytochemicals nor do I claim pose myself to be, but from what I understand of reading, this is several years ago from phytochemicals. It is not even in, you alluded to this, it’s not one, it can be multiple in many, but it’s also the synergy of them together. Right.

Jeff Van Durnen (00:57:35):

Is that correct? That’s correct. So, you know, if the only thing you eat is, you know, rabbits, you’re probably not going to be healthy. If the only thing you eat is spinach. Um, you’re probably not going to be very healthy. I mean, you need to treasured at different phytochemicals and why would they be in all of these plants? You know, the reason is because we need a lot of different ones, not all the same one every day, and certainly not necessarily, you know, a hyper concentrated one.

Adam Pulford (00:58:07):

Yeah. So curiosity questions, and perhaps some criticisms here on immunity, who did you, who did you develop the product for? What type of person or athlete?

Jeff Van Durnen (00:58:20):

So we developed this product actually for a general population. And so when we studied it, we studied healthy people. We studied people that had kind of syndrome X or metabolic syndrome, um, to see, you know, what their results would be. And so in, in this particular study that I’m talking about here, this was not done on athletes. This was done on a general population where they take one capsule in the morning and one in the evening. And it, it showed in real time out, it reduced the, uh, you know, reactive oxygen species load in their body. But, um, you know, as, as we know, um, engaging in regular exercise as a lot of health benefits, right? Uh, reduced risk of heart disease, improve mood, stronger bones, better blood flow. But when it comes to training yeah. You know, athletes, there is a detrimental effect, uh, if you can’t actually balance this free radical load.

Adam Pulford (00:59:27):

Right. Right. And it was just about to say, I mean, athletes, as we train, I mean, some of the stress in response signaling does allow us to, uh, to get rid of those free radicals a little bit better. So our body is equipped to do that as well. Even though we need these, you know, exoticness materials to help us with that. Right. Is that correct? Right. Um, and so this similar to all red w is a catalyst in order to, to achieve that, it seems like, correct? Correct. So is there, so for athletes in particular, um, is there any athletes that maybe would not benefit from this, or as I’m looking at the 20% reduction in ROS, uh, 42% reduction in mitochondrial RS, is there a time period where athletes should not be taking this

Jeff Van Durnen (01:00:21):

Again? This is, uh, it’s really this spectrum of different, uh, phytochemicals that are helping just balance what we would say balance or have a healthy, um, anti-oxidant free, radical homeostasis needed for good health and performance gates. I mean, one of the things you see is that, you know, the more you stress your body out, um, the more chance you have to be sick and, and catch something, I’m starting to get run down. So anything you could do as kind of a maintenance baseline level of healthy phytochemicals that are going to balance your free, radical anti-oxidant homeostasis, you know, is going to be beneficial. And again, um, the more diverse your diet is, the more plant-based your diet is, you’re going to have an advantage. Um, and, and so a lot of it depends what, what your diet is and how well you eat and that kind of thing to how well you sleep. But this is, this is another way or another tool to manage that oxidative stress in addition to diet and sleep

Adam Pulford (01:01:39):

Gotcha. In the reason I bring it up and you can, you can disagree with me or, or correct me if I’m wrong. But I remember, um, we used to work a lot with Dr. Stacy Sims and a lot of her recovery products when she created Osmo, um, was free of antioxidants and like extra stuff. Because, because effectively, initially after exercise, we want to get some carbohydrate and we want to get some protein and some migration that’s it. Right? Correct. Then let the, uh, the, you know, if you’re going to eat and accidents and you should eat antioxidants, I’m not saying that, but the timing of it is actually important. Don’t, you know, don’t chalk yourself full of antioxidants stuff post-workout right away. So I would say probably don’t take this with your recovery smoothie. Post-workout.

Jeff Van Durnen (01:02:27):

That’s why we recommend just take one capsule in the morning when you get out of bed and one before you go to bed at night. Yeah.

Adam Pulford (01:02:34):

Perfect. Okay. And if you exercise in the morning, if you train in the morning, would you, is it cool to take one of these before you work out?

Jeff Van Durnen (01:02:44):

I think it’s better to take it before then after you don’t agree with them, they, you, yeah, it’s really individual. I can’t, I can’t say across the board, what would be the best flat again?

Adam Pulford (01:02:57):

Splitting hairs. Their goals. Yeah. Yeah. Might be splitting hairs there, but, um, yeah, in D overall, I mean, it sounds, sounds like an incredible product for sure. And, uh, I am, I’m curious to, to learn a bit more, I, I will be Frank with everybody here. I have not read these studies that he has sent over, but with the all red in with the immunity, I will link to, um, all of these clinical, uh, research articles in our show notes afterwards. So, uh, Jeff I’ll get those, especially the immunity from you before we, before we wrap. All right. So bef before we go, I do want to talk about safety and quality because you know, more and more athletes are not only wanting to know, you know, what they’re putting into their bodies, but they want to know where it’s coming from, how it’s made the quality of it, and any other environmental considerations. So, you know, Jeff, for those say, you know, professional Olympic bound athletes that are listening to this, and they’re like, eh, I don’t want you to knocking on my door. Or if you have your, the, you know, the weekend warrior, that’s like, well, cool. But like, I want to know where this stuff is coming from. What can you say to those athletes that are curious about the product, but maybe have some hesitation on where this is coming from?

Jeff Van Durnen (01:04:14):

Fair question. Um, for our products, um, that we’re producing this, product’s actually produced at our future ceuticals facility. Um, everything is obviously GMV, FDA inspected every kind of quality certification. But in addition to that, uh, we have third party certifications specifically for athletes. So all of these products are NSF certified, uh, safe for sport. And so every single batch that we produce has to be tested for every single banned substance in the world. And so it’s a pretty extensive testing protocol that each lot of material has to go through. And it not only, uh, uh, you know, protects us, but I mean, even if we, for example, buy capsules to put the product in, I mean, we might know that our product is safe, but what about the capsule? What about the bottle? What about the little piece of cotton that goes into the bottle?

Jeff Van Durnen (01:05:18):

You know, there’s just no way to guarantee that it’s actually free of banned substances unless you does the finished product for banned substances. So we, we even here could do a perfect job and we’ll be like, of course we couldn’t have a contaminant in the product, but we’re not in control of capsule production, you know, for sure. Uh, if there’s some kind of cross-contamination or, you know, and then we also do a second, uh, certification, which is informed sport and, uh, that’s, that’s a similar certification. So we kind of have two certified certifying bodies that we use, um, and have a dual certification to make sure that it’s safe for any athlete. And then as far as sourcing the material, that’s also another very important thing. And so the source of all of our raw materials, we have a very strict quality approval process for every supplier of every ingredient that we make here at future ceuticals. And so, um, every supplier is audited visited. Um, we have to understand everything about their production process, um, the quality of the company, the quality of the people, you obviously have to trust your partners implicitly. And so, um, that’s something that’s very important to us is to really have relationships with the suppliers we have and understand everything about their business and, and their values because, um, without trust and, uh, knowing where the products actually coming from, uh, you be told anything again, it may not end up to be true.

Adam Pulford (01:07:07):

That’s exactly it, which is why I wanted to ask the question, because it does seem like, especially in this space of any, you know, supplement of sorts, it’s just many people can get in the game very easily and it is, uh, not so easily knowing where the stuff is coming from. So I’m glad to hear that you’ve taken that, that extra, not only step the extra mile, um, in order to do that. And you’ve, you, you know, you’ve been in this industry for a year, I mean, literally generations, so yeah, so that’s, that’s good. Good to hear.

Jeff Van Durnen (01:07:39):

We’ve kind of seen it all and some of it’s not good. Yeah.

Adam Pulford (01:07:43):

Yes, exactly. Exactly. Well, you know, like I said, in my intro, it’s, you know, this is a, this is a different style of podcast. I think that I’ve, that I’ve done before, uh, you know, talking about a product, um, you know, in the end, that’s what we did. We talked about two products, uh, but I hope what our listeners learned was, you know, a lot of science and a lot of Y and a lot of understanding of how beta liens are separate from beet root in particular, in how, you know, all red in beta liens can help in their pursuit of endurance performance. And so I certainly learned a lot as well, and, you know, our listeners are addicted to improving themselves in every facet of the way. But if you could maybe summarize, you know, your key points of what you want our listeners to gleam from this conversation, Jeff w how would you summarize our conversation today?

Jeff Van Durnen (01:08:38):

Yeah, I would summarize it by saying that, um, you know, we’re here to help athletes on their journey with pure studied efficacious supplements. Um, I would challenge anybody who wants to, uh, test this product out for themselves to try it. And, uh, a vast majority of the people that, uh, take this product are believers. And so, uh, it may or may not work for you, but it works for a lot of people with pretty dramatic results. Um, don’t believe everything you read and that’s marketed to you. Uh, I guess I would say that, uh, uh, nothing, no supplement will make up for hard work, good diet enough sleep, you know, it won’t make it any easier, although Easier. And hopefully we do go a lot faster.

Adam Pulford (01:09:35):

Yeah, that’s right. That’s right. Well, great. Jeff, thank you so much for taking time. Uh, you know, if our listeners want to check out your, um, alt red or immunity, uh, should we send them over to the website and, and what is that?

Jeff Van Durnen (01:09:49):

Yeah, the website is S U R dot C O

Adam Pulford (01:09:56):

Pretty simple, sir, dot co. And I will link to that in our show notes as well. And on the socials, uh, you guys are on Instagram, Facebook and Twitter, is that correct? That’s

Jeff Van Durnen (01:10:06):

Correct. Yep. Okay.

Adam Pulford (01:10:07):

And, uh, for those Strava members, I think you’ve got a Strava club as well. Right. Jeff? We

Jeff Van Durnen (01:10:12):

Do. We did.

Adam Pulford (01:10:13):

Okay. Okay. Well, I will link to that. Any, any, um, since we are recording, timestamping this just before Thanksgiving, is there any, uh, sir challenges, uh, just before the weekend?

Jeff Van Durnen (01:10:27):

There’s no, [inaudible] coming out soon, but, uh, Nope, no challenges right now.

Adam Pulford (01:10:37):

Okay. Well, I will link to all of that, including the clinical research and please go check them out. I think it’s, I think it’s worthwhile, but, uh, Jeff, thank you so much again for taking your time to help educate us on beta liens and blood flow and all the cool stuff.

Jeff Van Durnen (01:10:54):

Oh my pleasure. Thanks Adam. Thanks.

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